THE RED GAMBIT SERIES

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Forum Home > Ideas Page > Will we see more non Soviet Communist involvement?

Keith Lange
Member
Posts: 325

in Impasse, we saw a Romanian Armored unit fight alongside the Sovs. Will there be other Romanian units, or for that matter Communist contingents from other non-Soviet nations, such as Bulgaria, Albania, Hungary? Also, what is Czechoslovakia doing while all this goes on? The Communists didn't take power until 1948, before that, it was under the Eduard Benes regime, who may have been somewhat leftwing, but not Communist. What was his and his government's opinions on the new war?

December 26, 2013 at 6:05 PM Flag Quote & Reply

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk
Site Owner
Posts: 911

CONTAINS SPOILERS- Interesting point. The short answer is yes. Impasse has revealed that a sizeable Yugoslavian contingent will now fight alongside the Red Army. The Bulgarians and Czechs are in the OOB, but I felt that they would be held back until absolutely necessary. I suspect that moment will shortly be thrust upon the Soviet command as their casualties and materiel strength become  issues. The Czech force represents a large field group, with some considerable power, but its reliability would certainly have been in question, hence I left it stationed mostly on its own soil, where it was  more likely to fight with the Red ARmy, in defence of its lands; indeed, most such eastern forces would have been viewed with some suspicion I think. Certainly the Poles, similarly positioned in RG, were always viewed with mistrust, hence the stationing of NKVD divisions amongst their forces. It doesn't take a genius to work out that the Poles will be in action very soon. I have not considered using any Albanian units, save any within the Yugoslav Army that choose to become part of the Communist Forces in Italy.

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December 27, 2013 at 6:33 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Keith Lange
Member
Posts: 325

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk at December 27, 2013 at 6:33 AM

CONTAINS SPOILERS- Interesting point. The short answer is yes. Impasse has revealed that a sizeable Yugoslavian contingent will now fight alongside the Red Army. The Bulgarians and Czechs are in the OOB, but I felt that they would be held back until absolutely necessary. I suspect that moment will shortly be thrust upon the Soviet command as their casualties and materiel strength become  issues. The Czech force represents a large field group, with some considerable power, but its reliability would certainly have been in question, hence I left it stationed mostly on its own soil, where it was  more likely to fight with the Red ARmy, in defence of its lands; indeed, most such eastern forces would have been viewed with some suspicion I think. Certainly the Poles, similarly positioned in RG, were always viewed with mistrust, hence the stationing of NKVD divisions amongst their forces. It doesn't take a genius to work out that the Poles will be in action very soon. I have not considered using any Albanian units, save any within the Yugoslav Army that choose to become part of the Communist Forces in Italy.

So, will the Yugoslavs use Soviet weaponry or will they be like the Yugoslav Army in general-using mainly German equipment? Also, I wouldn't be surprised if TIto basically dumped a good portion of pro-Soviet Yugoslav Communists in the contingent, to get them out of the country and maybe get killed. He might well have thought that something wasn't right with regard to the border skirmishes.

December 27, 2013 at 4:20 PM Flag Quote & Reply

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk
Site Owner
Posts: 911

To be frank, it is the pro-communists who are most likely to volunteer to go in support of the Red Army, would you not think? My understanding of Tito was that he may have been a rough and ready chap, but he was nobody's fool. I don't doubt that the 'manufactured' nature of the border incidents, if not proven in time, would have been suspected. Tito was Yugoslavian first and foremost, so anythinghe did would have been to the benefit of his country, and hang the rest.

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December 28, 2013 at 5:20 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Keith Lange
Member
Posts: 325

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk at December 28, 2013 at 5:20 AM

To be frank, it is the pro-communists who are most likely to volunteer to go in support of the Red Army, would you not think? My understanding of Tito was that he may have been a rough and ready chap, but he was nobody's fool. I don't doubt that the 'manufactured' nature of the border incidents, if not proven in time, would have been suspected. Tito was Yugoslavian first and foremost, so anythinghe did would have been to the benefit of his country, and hang the rest.

"To be frank, it is the pro-communists who are most likely to volunteer to go in support of the Red Army, would you not think?"


That's what I meant-particularly the ones who worship Moscow. Also, Tito was a Communist, but he was a Yugoslavian Communist. I wonder what he'll do when and if he finds out the truth. He certainly won't be happy.

December 28, 2013 at 3:52 PM Flag Quote & Reply

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk
Site Owner
Posts: 911

Much will depend on how he sees the conflict going. My interpretation of him would be that he will do what is best for his country, first and foremost, so if the Allies start to win convincingly, then who knows what could happen?

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December 30, 2013 at 4:17 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Keith Lange
Member
Posts: 325

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk at December 27, 2013 at 6:33 AM

CONTAINS SPOILERS- Interesting point. The short answer is yes. Impasse has revealed that a sizeable Yugoslavian contingent will now fight alongside the Red Army. The Bulgarians and Czechs are in the OOB, but I felt that they would be held back until absolutely necessary. I suspect that moment will shortly be thrust upon the Soviet command as their casualties and materiel strength become  issues. The Czech force represents a large field group, with some considerable power, but its reliability would certainly have been in question, hence I left it stationed mostly on its own soil, where it was  more likely to fight with the Red ARmy, in defence of its lands; indeed, most such eastern forces would have been viewed with some suspicion I think. Certainly the Poles, similarly positioned in RG, were always viewed with mistrust, hence the stationing of NKVD divisions amongst their forces. It doesn't take a genius to work out that the Poles will be in action very soon. I have not considered using any Albanian units, save any within the Yugoslav Army that choose to become part of the Communist Forces in Italy.

So where will the Yugoslavs fight? Italy? Germany?

January 8, 2014 at 5:38 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Keith Lange
Member
Posts: 325

BTW, who were the Bulgarian guards in Opening Moves? Part of the Bulgarian Army, or volunteers who joined the Red Army?

August 12, 2014 at 2:21 PM Flag Quote & Reply

ChrisC
Administrator
Posts: 35

My research had them down as part of 12th Bulgarian Infantry Division, but I sort of looked upon them as an ad hoc created from dribs and drabs and put together to form camp guards.

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A moment of luck, good or bad, often plays a greater part in our destiny than hours of design.

Ernst-August Knocke

August 12, 2014 at 9:48 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Keith Lange
Member
Posts: 325

ChrisC at August 12, 2014 at 9:48 PM

My research had them down as part of 12th Bulgarian Infantry Division, but I sort of looked upon them as an ad hoc created from dribs and drabs and put together to form camp guards.

Do you think they were equipped by the Russians, or did they have their own stuff?

August 13, 2014 at 2:21 AM Flag Quote & Reply

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk
Site Owner
Posts: 911

In my minds eye I saw them Soviet equipped at all times. never considered anything else. I may have to have a gander at some reference stuff on 12th Div lol

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August 13, 2014 at 4:27 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Keith Lange
Member
Posts: 325

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk at August 13, 2014 at 4:27 AM

In my minds eye I saw them Soviet equipped at all times. never considered anything else. I may have to have a gander at some reference stuff on 12th Div lol

Actually, I've heard it said that the Bulgarian Army didn't receive a large amount of Soviet weaponry (except for maybe PPShs) until 1948. Before that, they used pre-Communist weaponry. In the early part of the 20th century, the Bulgarian Army adopted the Steyr-Mannlicher M1895 as it's standard rifle (the BUlgarians called it M1903 after the year of adoption, btw) Originally in 8x50R Mannicher, the rifles were rechambered in the 1930s for the 8x56mmR Steyr. Later, following the Anschluss and the Austrian Army's incorporation into the Wehrmacht Heer and subsequent rearmament with German issue arms, Germany sold BUlgaria additional Steyr Mannicher rifles also in 8x56R that the Austrian Army no longer needed. Later, the Bulgarians captured numerous Mauser type rifles and incorporated them into use.


http://carbinesforcollectors.com/bulgariapage1.html

August 13, 2014 at 7:40 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Mark
Member
Posts: 5

On a slight tangent but what about the various 'Free' Armies that fought in the West to support the Western Allies? Don't remember seeing much about them but would this war have started after they were re-patriated & if so, would they have tried to form guerilla forces that would assist their former comrades in the West?

September 1, 2014 at 7:25 AM Flag Quote & Reply

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk
Site Owner
Posts: 911

Actually, the Czechs remain under Allied control, as do all the Polish forces from Italy and Northern Europe. the Italians mainly went back to the demilitarised line in Northern Italy.

In RG, the Poles have already fought, the Czechs yet to be involved[ as far as being written about is concerned].

Did you have any other group in mind?

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September 1, 2014 at 6:12 PM Flag Quote & Reply

denis rea
Member
Posts: 21

The polish home were a formidable outfit loyal to the western government in exile & no love for Stalin, I'm sure, after He left Warsaw to it's destruction. Any plans for including them in a story arc. I know You have them included in the story but not mentioned specifically. You probably the home army credited with a share of the problems being caused to the Red Army.

Another group would be the Ukranian Nationalists. I suspect you might have this in the pipeline somewhere in the near future!


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Denis Rea

September 2, 2014 at 7:03 AM Flag Quote & Reply

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk
Site Owner
Posts: 911

Way ahead of you young Denis ��

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September 2, 2014 at 7:35 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Mark
Member
Posts: 5

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk at September 1, 2014 at 6:12 PM

Actually, the Czechs remain under Allied control, as do all the Polish forces from Italy and Northern Europe. the Italians mainly went back to the demilitarised line in Northern Italy.

In RG, the Poles have already fought, the Czechs yet to be involved[ as far as being written about is concerned].

Did you have any other group in mind?

Thinking about it no I don't think there is. Forgot that most of the other 'Free' forces have had their countries liberated of course. Wasn't there some Yugoslav forces that I seem to remember were forced back to Yugoslavia that Tito welcomed with open arms (of the automatic fire variety)?

September 5, 2014 at 5:46 PM Flag Quote & Reply

ChrisC
Administrator
Posts: 35

most probably as it sounds par for the course. we have one yugo expert in the facebook group. if you wish, I will ask. In book#5 you will find nationalist forces starting to serve in their own units, whilst others remain within sub-units of other nations. As a teensy weensy spoiler, you will find Free Belgian forces still within 21st AG, and a newly formed belgian infantry division also within the OOB. Its a time of transistion, and the forces of one nation will soon be placed under their own national flag, but not to the detriment of the Allied planning of course.

--

A moment of luck, good or bad, often plays a greater part in our destiny than hours of design.

Ernst-August Knocke

September 6, 2014 at 4:51 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Keith Lange
Member
Posts: 325

Mark at September 5, 2014 at 5:46 PM

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk at September 1, 2014 at 6:12 PM

Actually, the Czechs remain under Allied control, as do all the Polish forces from Italy and Northern Europe. the Italians mainly went back to the demilitarised line in Northern Italy.

In RG, the Poles have already fought, the Czechs yet to be involved[ as far as being written about is concerned].

Did you have any other group in mind?

Thinking about it no I don't think there is. Forgot that most of the other 'Free' forces have had their countries liberated of course. Wasn't there some Yugoslav forces that I seem to remember were forced back to Yugoslavia that Tito welcomed with open arms (of the automatic fire variety)?

I think you're probably referring to Draza Mikhalovic's Cetniks.

September 6, 2014 at 8:29 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Keith Lange
Member
Posts: 325

ChrisC at September 6, 2014 at 4:51 AM

most probably as it sounds par for the course. we have one yugo expert in the facebook group. if you wish, I will ask. In book#5 you will find nationalist forces starting to serve in their own units, whilst others remain within sub-units of other nations. As a teensy weensy spoiler, you will find Free Belgian forces still within 21st AG, and a newly formed belgian infantry division also within the OOB. Its a time of transistion, and the forces of one nation will soon be placed under their own national flag, but not to the detriment of the Allied planning of course.

Weren't the Belgians equipped by the British?

September 6, 2014 at 8:29 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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