THE RED GAMBIT SERIES

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk at February 5, 2014 at 3:50 AM

My research indicated solely that the division was underarmed in general terms, and equipped itself with anything it could beg, borrow, or steal. I think it would be more than fair to expect a lot of German kit, as well as any weapons used by the Vichy forces. I have seen pictures of FFI infantry in Alsace [which is where 14th was raised], and they were using thompsons, stens, Kar98s, and a number of weapons that I couldnt identify, although they had the look of something a bit long in the tooth.

Here is a list of the stuff the FF 49th Infantry regiment had: 1400 Mausers, 530 Lee Enfield rifles, 140 Mas 36, 50 FM 24/29, 124 Bren, 8 HMG Hotchkiss, 16 US MMG, 2 2" UK mortars, 2 81 mm german mortars, 6 LMG Skoda etc.

The 14th probably had pretty much the same equipment. Which must have been murder on logistics.

Indeed. But needs must, I suspect.

Oh, and one more question, if you don't mind, Chris. Did the Regimente Marche du Chad have Garands? Over at militaryphotos.net, Linedoggie said that the halftrack infantry of the French 2nd Armored had them. I presume that he was referring to the Chads.

I'm pretty sure that they did. i also seem to remember reading somewhere that they were one of, if not the first, french unit to receive the weapon as an official issue. I cant remember where I saw that, and it was a long time ago.

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk at February 11, 2014 at 3:33 AM

I'm pretty sure that they did. i also seem to remember reading somewhere that they were one of, if not the first, french unit to receive the weapon as an official issue. I cant remember where I saw that, and it was a long time ago.

I think that the first French unit to get them were the paratroopers. BTW, do you know if the Algerians used MAS 36s, or something else?

Do you mean 3rd Algerian Div?

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk at February 20, 2014 at 3:36 AM

Do you mean 3rd Algerian Div?

Yes, and the Algerians in general.

I've seen no evidence of them using the MAS36 as yet. There is evidence of french uniforms, even late in WW2. British uniforms and weapons can be seen in Italy and southern France. Some USweapons, .30 and .50 mgs for sure, plus some BARs and Garands.

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk at February 21, 2014 at 3:51 AM

I've seen no evidence of them using the MAS36 as yet. There is evidence of french uniforms, even late in WW2. British uniforms and weapons can be seen in Italy and southern France. Some USweapons, .30 and .50 mgs for sure, plus some BARs and Garands.

Which appeared to be more common-British or US?

BTW, are you familiar with the movie "Days of Glory"? It depicts a groups of Algerian Free French troops in WWII.

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Days_of_Glory

Would you say that it was a accurate depiction?

BTW again, thanks for having taken the time and trouble to answer my questions.  

Familiar with would be an over statement lol I have seen it once b but, as with most war films, it languishes in my dvd collection awaiting another airing. I don't remember having any great issues with it at the time. However, when dealing with those units at that  time, pretty much anything goes really. You wouldn't have the brigade of guards kitted out with anything but British kit, but the Free French took what they could get their hands on,. as we've discussed elsewhere. My gut feeling is that British kit would have held sway early on, and certainly uniform wise I think that can be substantiated, the more I look into this.

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk at February 21, 2014 at 3:51 AM

I've seen no evidence of them using the MAS36 as yet. There is evidence of french uniforms, even late in WW2. British uniforms and weapons can be seen in Italy and southern France. Some USweapons, .30 and .50 mgs for sure, plus some BARs and Garands.

Are you referring to the 3rd Div specifically?

That was re the 3rd Alg. Goumiers photos show a mix of French colonial and British uniform, with a smiliarly spread of weapons. I have yet to see a goumier with US weapons. The LE had a pic of original French and some italian weapons. I saw a pic once of a 13dble soldier with  a breda smg, early on in the conflict. 4th Morr photos are quite rare, and I dont recall any immediately.

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk at February 21, 2014 at 3:51 AM

I've seen no evidence of them using the MAS36 as yet. There is evidence of french uniforms, even late in WW2. British uniforms and weapons can be seen in Italy and southern France. Some USweapons, .30 and .50 mgs for sure, plus some BARs and Garands.

By 1945 would the 3rd Algerian have all US equipment, or would there be some units that have British?

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk at February 23, 2014 at 4:21 AM

That was re the 3rd Alg. Goumiers photos show a mix of French colonial and British uniform, with a smiliarly spread of weapons. I have yet to see a goumier with US weapons. The LE had a pic of original French and some italian weapons. I saw a pic once of a 13dble soldier with  a breda smg, early on in the conflict. 4th Morr photos are quite rare, and I dont recall any immediately.

I believe I've heard it said that Goumiers in Italy had M1917 Enfield and M1903 Springfield rifles. Are you saying the Goumiers had Berthiers and Lee Enfields? Any MAS 36s? Where did the Foreign LEgion get their hands on Italian equipment?

The LE obviously nicked it from the Italians during the course of teh fighting, but I doubt if they were u sed in great numbers. This isnt my ara of expertise, so I rely on interent trolling and my books. As far as Im concerned, I could probably put any allied weapon in their hands [save Russian] and feel comforrtable thatthe FF used it at some time, albeit not official issue.

I did not like Days of Glory at all.  I don't like any movie where their own country is the villain.  The battle scenes were not that good either.

A movie that can be similarly criticized is the Italian "Alamein: The Line of Fire," but it was a great movie all the same.

Seeing how the French were still using a crazy assortment of weapons in Indochina, I think it's reasonable to expect the same thing in a continued war.  Actually with British industry working but their running out of men, I think they would provide a lot more weapons.

Days of Glory did little for me for sure. Don't forget, the British have just recovered an awfullot of manpower from the POW camps, who would have taken up some resources. I see teh French here as taking anything and everything they can get their hands on.

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk at February 22, 2014 at 5:47 AM

Familiar with would be an over statement lol I have seen it once b but, as with most war films, it languishes in my dvd collection awaiting another airing. I don't remember having any great issues with it at the time. However, when dealing with those units at that  time, pretty much anything goes really. You wouldn't have the brigade of guards kitted out with anything but British kit, but the Free French took what they could get their hands on,. as we've discussed elsewhere. My gut feeling is that British kit would have held sway early on, and certainly uniform wise I think that can be substantiated, the more I look into this.

Were the Algerians in Days part of the Metropolitan French forces or the colonial units?

3rd Algerian Division I suspect.

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk at February 5, 2014 at 3:50 AM

My research indicated solely that the division was underarmed in general terms, and equipped itself with anything it could beg, borrow, or steal. I think it would be more than fair to expect a lot of German kit, as well as any weapons used by the Vichy forces. I have seen pictures of FFI infantry in Alsace [which is where 14th was raised], and they were using thompsons, stens, Kar98s, and a number of weapons that I couldnt identify, although they had the look of something a bit long in the tooth.

So in other words, i figure probably a mixture of kar98ks and Mas 36s, though more the former. BTW, what did the Vichy forces use?