THE RED GAMBIT SERIES

chris, if you wish to know what the Italians used in North Africa, here's a couple of threads that may be of interest:

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?368730-What-did-the-Italian-troops-of-the-Afrika-Korps-use-in-WWII

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?240398-What-did-the-Italian-troops-in-North-Africa-during-WWII-have

You might find them to be somewhat useful.

thanks.

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk at September 3, 2014 at 2:43 AM

thanks.

Anytime. It seems like the Alles have captured a plethora of Italian rifles in North Africa, and the French also had a eclectic assortment of rifles from before the Nazi conquest. If I were the Allies, I would limit the types of rifles sent to the Spanish so as to simplfy logistics. Myself, I would send them just the Carcano 91/38 FC/short rifles, which I suspect were probably pretty numerous. As for the French-I don't know what they'd send. Either the Berthier M16s, or the Mas mle 36s. Just out of curiosity, if you don't mind my asking, what do you think about the matter?

I suspect that simplifying logistics would win in the long run.

Will you tell more about that in the upcoming novel?

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk at August 27, 2014 at 6:28 AM

I suspect you're right.

Just out of curiosity, what do you mean by that?

Keith Lange at August 24, 2014 at 5:40 AM

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk at August 13, 2014 at 4:26 AM

I like easy ones :-) Any Italian issue kit that had been captured in the desert. French small arms circa 1940. I debated on giving them springfields at one time but didnt decide.

In OM, Nazabayeva said that German prisoners stated that the Spanish may have also recevied French Army armor. What kind would it be? Char B1 tanks? Also, here is a list of French rifle types from about 1940:

- Fusil Lebel Mle 1886/93 (8mm, 8 rounds) was largely replaced by the different Berthier rifles but as you know was still present in 1940

 

 

 

- Fusil Berthier Mle 07/15 (8mm, 3 rounds), replacing the Lebel rifle in 1915, still present in 1940 but few

 

 

 

- Fusil Berthier Mle 1916 (8mm, 5 rounds), replaced the Lebel and 07/15 rifle in 1916, the MOST COMMON in 1940 (most of the infantry divisions, fortress infantry etc.)

 

 

 

- Fusil Automatique Mle1917 and 1918 (8mm, 5 rounds, semi-auto) : 90,000 produced. Mostly used during the Rif war but the 1917 model equipped French snipers and the others were spread among all units and given to the sharpshooters.

 

 

 

- The Berthier rifle 1907/15 M34 (7.5mm, 5 rounds), 45,000 delivered in 1938 issued to the professional units

 

 

 

- MAS Mle 36 (7.5mm, 5 rounds), 250,000 delivered in 1939/1940 (60,000 before the beginning of the phoney war, and the rest during the following months but 250,000 were used in the units) also issued primarily to all active units (about 250,000 men) (the professionnal ones : chasseurs portés, dragons portés, corps francs, chasseurs alpins, infanterie de l'air, légionnaires, some cavalry and infantry divisions) and to snipers

 

 

 

- Mousqueton Berthier Mle 1892 M16 (8mm, 5 rounds) was used in the cavalry and several other units like artillery units I guess ... But it was also present in the Chasseurs Alpins, in the Corps Francs beside the rifles

 

 

 

- Mousqueton Lebel Mle1886/93 R35 (8 mm, 6 rounds) present in 1940 and mostly used by police units (traffic regulation) and cavalry units as well as artillery units.

 

You may find that list to be of some interest and use.

The specific number of types of rifles, if you're curious, was 2,383,000 in 8mm among them 90,000 semi autos sent to the best riflemen in the divisions, and 295,000 rifles in 7.5 mm issued mainly to the best units. Also, here is some info about machine guns and subguns:

In 1916, the standard LMG of the squad is the FM 1915 "Chauchat", 225000 delivered (+ 35000 given to the USA)

Before 1918 about 10,000 Browning FM BAR were also bought.

In 1922, 500 FM Madsen were tested.

The Army wanted the Browning FM BAR but it was too expensive.

In 1925, Adoption of the MAC FM 1924 : 50,000 delivered chambered in the original 7.5mm model 1924 round

In 1934, Adoption of the MAC FM 24/29 (ammo = 7.5mm model 1929) and all the FM 24s were subsequently rechambered or modified for the FM 24/29 configuration. About 150,000 delivered before 1940.

SMGs used by the French Army in 1939/1940 :

- French origin

PM MAS 38 : 1958

PM STA mle 1924 : 1200

PM Petter mle 1939 : 50

PM ETVS : 50

- Foreign origin

MP 28 : 1000

MP 34 : 200

EMP : 3250

Steyr : about 50

Suomi M/31 : 150

Thompson 1921/1928 : 3000

The EMP SMG is the most common SMG used by the French Army in 1939-40. They actually were seized from Spanish Republican troops at the end of the Spanish Civil War. 3250 MPE were counted but due to lack of magazines only about 1000 were issued. The most common place to find this weapon was with the Corps Francs.

The Thompson SMGs had been ordered to the USA in 1938 and delivered end 1939 with 30 millions cartridges. They were rarely distributed before May/June 1940, many stayed in armories or only delivered to militay police units (Gendarmes that fought on the Loire river for example). The Thompson SMGs were also delivered to the Laffly W15T CC tank destroyer crews and some AA units but they were later more used by the Vichy French troops.

I doubt that they would send the Spanish any SMGs, because the Spanish have a standard caliber in that regard-the 9x23mm Largo.

Apologies but I've let the forums slip a little. Trying to get the new book out. I'll try and catch up when I can.

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk at August 13, 2014 at 4:26 AM

I like easy ones :-) Any Italian issue kit that had been captured in the desert. French small arms circa 1940. I debated on giving them springfields at one time but didnt decide.

Could the Italian arms include weapons captured in Italy itself, like from the forces of the defunct Italian Social republic? Also, the Germans incorporated a number of Italian weapons, such as Carcanos which were given to the Volkssturm, could those have been given to the Spanish? Also, what about non-German weapons that were n by the Germans and put into service by them? Here's a page that lists the weapons:

http://7.62x54r.net/Forums/index.php?topic=12239.0

Or would the Belgian and Dutch rifles be returned to their origial owners?

But I suspect that the German weapons would probably make up most of the hardware sent to the Spanish. 

Depending on the needs of the new german forces, very possibly. Much depends on German, Belgian and French industry as to who gets what.

So what did the 22nd have in Sacrifice, just out of curiosity? Just German?

Mainly german, but Im sure they woudl have had a few other bits and pieces, remembering the logistic difficulties of multi-sourced weapons.

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk at January 12, 2015 at 2:31 AM

Mainly german, but Im sure they woudl have had a few other bits and pieces, remembering the logistic difficulties of multi-sourced weapons.

So...Italian, Spanish, French, US? 

PS, I don't think the Spanish used the 9x19mm Parabellum, at least very much. Their standard pistol/submachine gun round was the 9x23mm Largo/Bergmann.

Bound to have burgled some US kit from next door neighbours and the like :-)

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk at January 13, 2015 at 3:38 AM

Bound to have burgled some US kit from next door neighbours and the like :-)

So, Springfields, then? I think that as far as uniforms go, they would have had US winter garb, and their helmets would probably bea mix of American and Spanish issue.

Does the Azul Division have all German equipment, just out of curiosity?

Will there be more Spanish in the next book?

Keith Lange at September 22, 2015 at 4:00 AM

Will there be more Spanish in the next book?

Not in combat, just in passing.

gee_colin@yahoo.co.uk at September 22, 2015 at 6:35 AM

Keith Lange at September 22, 2015 at 4:00 AM

Will there be more Spanish in the next book?

Not in combat, just in passing.

So, no actual battle scenes, just references, then. Though there could still be some battles involving them off the radar.